A Conversation with James, Psychopath Extraordinaire

Kissing a Snake pic

Kissing a Snake


Kissing a snake. What’s the worst that can happen? Here is the thread from http://zen-ful.net/2013/12/18/the-dance-sociopath-and-the-empath/  and To Be Continued…?

  1. I am a sociopath. I identify as a psychopath, but they are the same thing really. If you’d wanted to keep this blog a sociopath-free zone, sorry to disappoint; we are in fact everywhere. Of course, you could choose not to publish the comment but I believe what I have to say may be of interest to everyone here.

    First and foremost, I object to being told by people who cannot see inside my head (despite their claims of greater empathy) that I am a lizard, that I am a vampire, or something else inhuman. I object to being told I am empty and have no emotions, though I can see why people say such things. It’s very easy to distance yourself, to demonise, much harder to approach and attempt to understand, especially when they’re a strong chance the person you are attempting to understand wants to hurt you.

    I have an empath friend. Yes ‘friend’, not ‘target’ or ‘victim’. In fact it was she who directed me to this post. Obviously she thought it was accurate, including the emotional stillness that you talk about. Personally, I identify quite well with the part where you say “the sociopath is also attracted to the empath.”, though not quite for the reasons you state. We have emotions, they are blunted of course, but we have them. My empath’s emotional states are certainly what attracts me to her, as well as the fact that she can see right through me. I don’t need to deceive or manipulate as not only is it pointless (she knows), it is more valuable me to have one person with whom I can be honest and open. It is for this reason that, while I think your example of ‘the dance’ is accurate (I call it ‘the game’), that is not what I have planned for my friend.

    Actually, I hope that I do not have a draining effect on her. I do not see myself as an energy vampire, or whatever the term was, but I recognise people are often the worse for coming across me. I tell my friend about my exploits and plans, my thoughts and, for what they’re worth, my feelings. She knows stuff about me that no-one else does. My friend for her part is doing her best to make me a better person, encouraging me to hurt fewer people, tricking me into feeling empathy for others. Though there may be plenty of cynics out there, we have seen moderate early success.

    I’m not sure exactly where this post is going, or even if it has a destination, so let me just finish by saying that sociopath / empath interacton doesn’t have to be the way you describe. It is possible, however unlikely, to develop a friendship based on mutual understanding, truthfulness and – yes – sensible levels of cautiousness.

      • Hey! I made the post above, about being in a family of empaths, and having a sociopathic boyfriend. Our relationship sounds a lot like the one you have with your friend (and if your name isn’t fake, you both have the same name, haha). I just wanted to thank you for posting. We’ve been together for a long time now and even though we have our ups and downs, we help each other in a mutually beneficial way. Like you said, how she helps you in those ways, I do so with him. And he’s great at grounding me and keeping me level (I tend to rely TOO MUCH on my own abilities, and it puts me in situations that aren’t very good by normal standards). But anyway, I really don’ tknow where I’m going with this. But um, thank you.

      • I’m sorry?

        Judging by all those social media profiles, you’re just the sort of person who would have us all carted off to camps at the drop of a hat. Good luck with your petition, it’s failing badly.

      • Judging badly. I am not that sort of person. Psychopaths should not be carted off simply from a disorder. My view is that psychopathy should be identified for it’s limitations for employment, Just as color-blind people should not serve in certain capacities, psychopathy needs to be identified. Psychopathy need be a disqualification from national security clearance. My mission is to get psychopaths out of government since they can only be self-serving.

      • Your “mission”? Messiah complex or what? What you’re advocating is systematic discrimination, and taken to its extreme that will involve rolling out the cattle trucks. So you’ve identified all these psychopaths with your fMRI tests, what do you do then? Just turn them all free into the world? I don’t think so somehow.

        Forgive me for being hostile; I’d quite like a position in government myself and I always feel compelled to fight the injustice of your “mission”. But what did you mean, “nicely done”?

      • I understand your position of not wanting to be identified. Psychopaths have always been free. It is estimated that at 4% of population, that means 12 million psychopaths in the USA alone. You have always been here, and you always will be. There just needs to be complete awareness and a level playing field based on truthful disclosure.

        You don’t have the capacity to understand what is means to take something to heart, therefore the word mission has a hostile meaning to you. I am fighting for justice. I am fighting for openness and truth. You would like to hide, which is the opposite.

      • Nicely done means I liked your statement. There is no hidden meaning. I find that I need to explain these simple things to psychopaths because of their slanted view of the world. Is everyone against you? Probably because you are hiding, which is lying by omission, and that tends to hurt people eventually. People generally get upset and want to retaliate.

      • You talk to me with the same stupid sound bites that are littered all over your different websites. Are you a woman or a robot?

        Ooh, but the prejudice is showing through now, isn’t it? “slanted view of the world”, “you don’t have the capacity to understand”, “I understand your position of not wanting to be identified.” But you don’t accept that as my right.

        Psychopaths have been known about for a long time now; there is a ton of information out there, including your stuff, and random blogs like the one we’re on here. There is already a level playing field information-wise. If there are people who don’t know about us by now, they’re stupid. We don’t need fascist background checks.

        Now stop persecuting me like this. I don’t need your threats of exposure to know our days are numbered. I just want to be left alone, is that too much to ask?

      • Statement of fact is not bullying. Calling names is bullying. I did not react to your referring to my property as “stupid”. I can’t be emotionally manipulated, just like you.

        Your hostility is misdirected. I am one of the few people who identifies psychopaths and don’t want them locked up for no reason.

      • And dressing up your opinions as fact in order to victimise is bullying. I think you’re a psychopath. You are, aren’t you?

        But let’s not fight 🙂 You’re gonna get me chucked off the blog, and while you might secretly like that, it would make me sad 😦 I think we can achieve something if we have a civil conversation. Hopefully you agree?

        OK, so I’m quite a bright boy, I know what fMRI scans are, so I understand your devious plan 😉 But there remains a serious question, what do you do with the information you they give you? What becomes of the psychopaths once they have been identified? Your mission is pretty comprehensive, so I am sure you have already thought of that. You say you don’t want them locked up, but what do you do with a bunch of (famous – they’re politicians, so in the public eye) outed psychopaths.

        I hope we can discuss this like adults; no 5 year olds allowed!

      • I disagree with almost everything you’ve said, but I wanted to drop in to say that most of the government IS full of people who are incredibly self serving. Sociopaths aren’t the only beings who can be selfish. Why don’t we discriminate against everyone who shows selfishness, hmm? Your idealistic utopia would never exist. Discrimination would fix nothing.

        I understand your “justice” complex. I think most empaths have one, because it’s the only reasonable way we can justify our judgement. But I don’t think you’re an empath, from what you posted earlier (that silly link? I do most of those things. My boyfriend, on the other hand, only does one. You’re not identifying anyone with that nonsense). You want to think you have some superpower, some upper hand against the “enemy”, and I don’t see why?

        “I find that I need to explain these simple things to psychopaths because of their slanted view of the world. Is everyone against you?” — This is really offensive and unnecessary. He was going by your other comments (how to identify a sociopath? Hahahah, please…), not by that simple comment. You’re projecting your prejudice on him really hard. You have established ideas that are wrong, so stop pushing them on others.

        And no. Please don’t insult socio/psychopaths by saying they’re 5 years old emotionally. Emotions != empathy, and if you’re not intelligent enough to carry on such a discussion, I would prefer if you kept your misinformation to yourself.

      • Aww, shucks, shuielou. That was epic 😀 I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed somebody defend psychopaths like that before.

        Have to say, I certainly prefer your method for engaging us than Mrs Grumpy Boots’. I’m still interested to hear what she’s got to say though, so I hope you haven’t dealt her a critical blow to her confidence…

      • I made a list of dysfunctional habits. If you do those things, and you are not a psychopath, well, then you are toxic material. I am not insulting someone when I say they are five years old, intellectually or emotionally , if it is true.

      • Again, you’re presenting your opinion as fact. So I’m an intellectual 5 year old as well am I? Is that why you won’t engage in a proper discussion, you think I’m beneath your attention?

        You came up with a list of random behaviours yourself. Tell me, who qualified you as an authority on anything to do with psychopathy? If the answer is, as I suspect, “yourself”, then perhaps you ought to bow to my superior knowledge, through (very) personal experience, when I tell you that your list is utter rubbish.

      • Haha, don’t you think I know that? I am on here TALKING about being a psychopath, of COURSE the disorder is showing. Duhhhhh…

        I’m not the idiot you seem to think; I’m well aware that I’m interesting to you. Don’t think I’ve fit any of your list’s criteria yet though, have I? Though I should think a better use of your time might be to go and observe one of your relatives, or are they all in prison?

        We’re not playing any game, you’re just an idiot know-it-all who’s outstayed her welcome.

      • You put words in my mouth. I don’t think you are an idiot. I don’t have any respect for you, but that has more to do with your foul retorts. Again, you resort to trying to manipulate my emotions by name-calling, as you have likely used as a weapon on people your whole life. I am hip. I am gray rock.

      • I tried to be nice, but you wouldn’t play along 😦

        True, you didn’t specifically call me an idiot, but I don’t know many 5 year olds who would qualify as anything but. You don’t need to tell me what techniques I’m using on you; I’m well aware since I’m doing them. I guess you’re so used to it by now, that’s why it doesn’t work. You’re fun, can we please be friends? 😛

      • “Not enemies”? Result! Lol, I really don’t care. But you know that of course.

        With your latest reply to my good friend shuielou, I really think you might be a psychopath. Coming from me, that’s not an insult! If anything, it’s a compliment.

        Seriously, I want to have a conversation where neither of us trade any insults and are nothing but darlings to each. Let’s say 3 comments each. You be the judge as to whether this counts as my first 🙂 If nothing else, you can take more notes for your blog or whatever.

      • The word psychopath should not be an insult or a bad word. It is too late, people have been calling others psycho to describe outbursts of violence. We need a new technical term for people who have no conscience. Do you have any suggestions?

      • I actually think “psychopath” is sufficient. Once people know what real psychopaths are, their ideas of psycho(tic) Norman Bates et al go out of their heads. Of course, the word sociopath exists too, but that has become a catch-all term for anybody who isn’t very nice. Other than that, we’ve got antisocial personality, the only clinical term in fact.

        But if you want a new term, you’d have to come up with a new word. The Soulless perhaps? The empathically undead? OK, I’m being pithy, but I do think the research community just needs to work with one of the three terms they’ve already got and cut out the two that only serve as superfluous distractions.

      • Please forgive me for skipping ahead to take another turn. I am interested in your work, and I realised that I came across your ‘how to’ article a couple of years ago. That made me initially think that you had just stolen the article and passed it off as your own work, but I have gone back and checked and that page does indeed link to your blog.

        The point I’m making, is you’re a pretty vocal figure online on the subject of psychopathy. As I already remarked, you have a lot of different social media, websites etc… You have put yourself ‘out there’ in a big way. But what you seem to lack is a big following. The White House petition has been signed by basically no-one, none of your recent blog posts have any comments, your Facebook page only has 1000 likes. It’s quite a modest return for so much exposure, is it not?

        Why do you think that is? What are you doing wrong? I promise I’m not being horrible. Just, what do you think? I’ll answer any question you give me if you can spare a thought for this conundrum.

      • I am very much of a “behind the scenes” type of person. People respond to imagery, video, and mass media. I have not made videos, yet. In addition, psychopathy is a very small percentage of the population, and people who have not experienced the unmasking of a psychopath have no way to comprehend my message. Therefore, my audience is limited. Of those people who understand what psychopathy is, they have their own unique life concerns, and don’t see the global impact of psychopathy on the environment and society. No matter how long it takes to get taken seriously, I have no plans to stop advocating awareness. I am not bothered by numbers of petition signers. I just want the information to be presented.

        Thanks for acknowledging my presence that was/is being built very slowly. I do what I do because I like to do it.

        Now, it sounds like you would had some thoughts on what I’m doing wrong. I am not offended. Please elaborate?

      • Oh, I’m not so sure I could help!

        Your audience shouldn’t be limited is the thing. Have you seen the size of sites such as Love Fraud, Psychopathy Awareness etc. Even if you are correct that only victims can truly empathise with your cause, there are millions of them out there. Where are your millions?

        There are two blogs I know of that are actually written by psychopaths. They are popular, they have been running for years, they always get some comments, often they get hundreds. I would say they have the ‘wow’ factor (morbid curiosity, whatever you’d like to call it) of actually having one of these people – one of us – writing down their thoughts unfiltered and truthful. I’ll tell you something that’s never been done: psychopaths and normal people collaborating on a project. If you could pull that off, that would be ‘wow’ factor.

        I haven’t delved much into your blog’s history, but all the recent stuff is very broad, highbrow, and long-winded. Nobody wants to read 20 paragraphs about Congress and food stamps and what not. People like the personal factor. Short, accessible articles that explain how and why an issue affects them personally. And if you really want to sell the political stuff, you should be prepared to do proportionately more human interest stories “I married a sociopath”; “How to deal with a narcissistic boss”; “Can a child be labelled a psychopath?” because that’s the sort of stupid gossip that people like. When you have a following, then you can tell them that their congressman is a maniac.

        I’m British by the way, I don’t really know what a congressman is 😀

      • I hope you’re not just going to take my answer and run? Lol, after our turbulent relationship yesterday, we should celebrate respect and reconciliation 🙂

      • I don’t think they’re a psychopath. Maybe I’m biased, but all the psychopaths I’ve ever seen are actually intelligent, to a distinct degree. This person isn’t. They’re more likely narcissistic, if anything. But I’m just throwing out an opinion from this encounter alone, I know nothing from looking through their website, or anything else that would be a waste of my time.

        They sound like a child who thinks they have the answer to the mysteries of the world, and can tell how people are with their amazing gifts. It’s childish ideation at it’s most pathetic.

      • “I made a list of dysfunctional habits. If you do those things, and you are not a psychopath, well, then you are toxic material. I am not insulting someone when I say they are five years old, intellectually or emotionally , if it is true.”

        lol Nah. Those are really common habits. I change topic quickly in conversation, because I have a lot of thoughts and I express them indiscriminately. I ask my friends, “What would you do if I bought you a puppy?” not because I’m a sociopath, but because I want to know. This is literally normal, everyday action. You’re the only person with the mind of a five year old if you don’t have the cognitive function to realize that your projected delusions of reality are unfounded at best, and completely neurotic at worst. And no, that’s not a factual statement. You’re just filled with an unnatural level of unwarranted self importance.

      • You are not a good person. You support your boyfriend gaslighting unsuspecting victims just so he will leave you out of his boredom games . I will not cease my mission based on your sole skewed input, when I have tons of feedback from good people who appreciate my efforts.

      • Oooh, ignoring my critique for a personal attack! I expected it, but not so soon.

        I have nothing to do with his behavior. I don’t hold a controller that shuts off his personality, and I’m not stupid enough to assume I do. I take the lesser of two evils, and ask him to tone it down if he wants to stay on decent terms with me, and he does. If I told him to stop, he would say no, and continue as he did before. If I left him, he would have no reason not to adhere to my expectations. So, if I may be so bold? Yes. I am a good person. Because my influence lessens the amount of chaos he can cause as much as I am able.

        You, on the other hand, are just a self-righteous, pretentious fool suffering from the dunning kruger effect. You have no “mission”. You think your opinions actually matter, when you have no idea what reality actually entails. Which is somewhat embarrassing, although you’ll never be able to see it.

    • Hey, shuielo! You are more than welcome.

      It’s great to know there are others out there who can maintain a mutually-beneficial functional relationship. I suppose it helps that I am a rather pro-social sociopath (if that makes any sense, haha) in that I see co-operation is often the easiest way to get what I want.

      Yeah, my real name is James. Didn’ t you know every James is a psychopath 🙂 There’s me, your boyfriend, James Bond… the list goes on!

      • That’s very similar to him. He’s pretty social and charismatic and he prefers that to make it easier to navigate society. He’s still terribly manipulative to others and even large groups of people (subtlety, of course), but he’s not as bad now that he’s with me. I sometimes feel badly for indirectly imposing my morals on to him (I accept him for how he is and I don’t try to change him, but I am uncomfortable with manipulation that very badly affects others and he knows that), but I give him enough space and try not to take everything to heart (which is a bit difficult. I’m a terrible empath, I’m like a sponge for the emotions of anyone around me). But yeah, it’s wonderful being mutually beneficial to one another. Overall, I’m so glad I met him. I think we both get a lot more out of a relationship with one another than if we were to date “normal” people.

      • This whole “accepting people as they are” thing is very interesting to me. I sometimes wonder if there is a place in society for sociopaths to exist openly. If there were more education and more acceptance, perhaps fewer people would get hurt. Despite that, I think people like you are still very much a – highly commendable – minority.

        So I’m interested in your relationship (just a little bit), if that’s okay with you. Your boyfriend doesn’t mistreat you in any way, despite carrying on business as usual with others (albeit to a lesser extent due to your improving influence)?

        For my part, I avoid doing anything to upset my friend, though I do like to test the boundaries – where there are any at all.

      • I hope I’m replying to this right! And yes, it’s alright 🙂It’s nice to be able to talk about it with someone who understands.

        No, he doesn’t mistreat me at all, though doesn’t take as much precaution with others in everyday life. But he’s not impulsive, so he doesn’t ever cause problems that he doesn’t feel is worth dealing with later. He still uses cognitive empathy to a point, but usually just as a means to get the reaction he wants, or to put someone at ease (like, if I’m depressed about something and he says, “I understand that this is hard for you to go through”, I know he doesn’t actually understand. But he’d rather respond that way and make me feel like he’s actually listening than say, “Oh. That’s not that interesting to me” while I’m feeling down. lol mostly because he’s learned that even though I accept his personality for what it is, I still don’t have the emotional stability to handle that when I’m down). Sometimes he “plays” with people just because he’s bored, and that’s what I’ve had to become comfortable with. Because if he doesn’t get out his boredom, he tends to be less patient with my emotional needs, if that makes any sense?

        He definitely avoids anything to upset me. If he did something and it upset me once, he’ll avoid doing it ever again until I say otherwise (which I found very odd? Because it just seems weird to think that what upset me at one time will always upset me, but maybe I’m just being irrational). He pushes the boundaries, but very slightly. I’ve had to deal with a sociopath before who wasn’t so benign, so he knows that if he shows any signs of manipulation or abuse, that I’ll just drop the whole thing on the spot (which I thought wouldn’t bother him, given the circumstances of his personality, but he values me as a friend and doesn’t like the idea of not having me around. I don’t know if it’s love, or him taking a liking for me, or just trust and respect? idk, he just says he trusts me more than anyone else, which I guess I can imagine in my mind is love?). But he doesn’t ever try anything shitty, cause it doesn’t work in his favor ever, and he’s had to learn to be very upfront with me while we’ve been together.

        Part of the reason I think I care so much about the upfront issue is because I can read most people to feel their personality and intentions, so I’m never really in the dark. But I can’t read him at all*, and he just feels quiet, so I appreciate him actually telling me things straight out than using deceptive language.

        *When I say I can’t read him, it’s more like… Let’s say There’s person A and person J(ames). If person A tells a lie, I can tell, and usually ballpark their reason and motive for lying (which is easy enough for most people). Person A also usually gives off certain body language cues that let me know how they’re feeling enough to hypothesize. But with person J, it’s not that easy. For him, it just feels off, something feels less natural, or the body language doesn’t add up at all (or just isn’t there). And that’s really all I can tell. But I can’t really tell anything else, and it makes me uncomfortable. This was more an issue early on in our relationship when he didn’t know I was an empath and I would call him out for lying about various things (which I guess I now realize was probably his way of testing the waters and seeing if I was easily manipulated, maybe?)

        Oh gosh, I’m sorry I wrote so much, and most of it was rambling.

      • There’s no wrong way to reply, you just write what you feel 🙂 And no need to apologise for writing what’s on your mind, I can filter out the rambly stuff anyway 😉 You will however forgive ME for not having the concentration to give a response as long and eloquent as yours!

        “He still uses cognitive empathy to a point, but usually just as a means to get the reaction he wants” – Yeah, even empathy has its uses, haha. There’s no wasted interaction with us.

        “Because if he doesn’t get out his boredom, he tends to be less patient with my emotional needs, if that makes any sense?” – certainly does. But one thing I’m unsure of, perhaps I misunderstood you. You let other people suffer at James’ hands for the sake of your own happiness, is that right?

        I wouldn’t equate trust with love. I trust my friend; I don’t love her. If you love someone, you trust them, but the reverse isn’t always true.

        Hopefully, you can also appreciate my bluntness. I have no wish to deceive, especially when I know my friend is watching this conversation, making sure I don’t act out, LOL 🙂

      • Haha, I just don’t mind being detailed because I never get to talk about this with anyone.

        “There’s no wasted interaction with us.” — Haha, we’re opposites in this regard, I guess. He’s constantly annoyed by how much time I’ll take out of my day or spend with certain people when I don’t want to and there’s nothing I’m getting out of it. The only time he does it is mainly for appearances, if he has to. But that feels so insincere to me… Not that you guys can help it! And he has to keep up a certain image, I know that. But I still get pouty if I ask him to hang out with a friend and I just because I like him around, and he says he has no reason to put the effort into forming any friendship with said person because it’s not necessary. 😦

        “But one thing I’m unsure of, perhaps I misunderstood you. You let other people suffer at James’ hands for the sake of your own happiness, is that right?” — That’s such a blunt way to put it, but at the bare bones of the situation, I suppose I do. I have certain limits that I really dislike him doing, and we’ve discussed that before. But I know I can’t really control him, even if I wanted to. So he makes the decision to do what he wants. He doesn’t do heinous things, though. He knows I’m too lawful good for that lol

        “I wouldn’t equate trust with love. I trust my friend; I don’t love her. If you love someone, you trust them, but the reverse isn’t always true.” — This is also very true. But I guess, in my mind, that’s the closest ideal I can compare it to. I can’t really imagine not feeling empathy.

      • “Haha, I just don’t mind being detailed because I never get to talk about this with anyone.” So your James isn’t ‘out’ with anyone else then? I don’t blame him really.

        I have to agree with him that spending time with people you don’t like or don’t need is a waste.

        “That’s such a blunt way to put it” That’s the honest way to put it. I assume you don’t mind the bluntness and that you appreciate a similar forthrightness from your boyfriend. Isn’t that why you like him?

        May I please ask, beyond the obvious stuff like killing and other heinous crimes that run contrary to your lawful good alignment (nice phrasing, by the way!), what are the certain limits to what you’ll accept?

        “But I guess, in my mind, that’s the closest ideal I can compare it to.” That’s fair enough, and understandable. But trust is trust. It doesn’t need to be compared to anything.

        “I can’t really imagine not feeling empathy” Well that makes two of us then! Or rather, the reverse 🙂 Nice talking to you, don’t feel obligated to keep replying. I’d be honoured if you did though.

      • Oh nooooooo. He’s not out to anyone. The only people who know are other empaths (which is limited to me, my mom, and one of his male friends). And he’s only told me. My mom felt it. And his male friend is just more observant than normal and noticed one of the times he was being a manipulative shit.

        Aw. I think everyone has something valuable to share, and I feel terrible if I let my own prejudice leave a person in need. Even if I don’t get anything out of it, I feel better knowing that I made someone fell better, or helped them pass the time. I do need to use my time on less people, though.

        Hahah, I don’t mind the bluntness at all! I just try not to think of it that way, or I feel really bad… But I know I can’t control him, and I don’t have a desire to. And he knows that I have certain limits. Um, I don’t like deceit, at all. And I don’t like manipulation where the person is hurt to a certain degree. Example, there was this girl who had a huge crush on him, and constantly let him know she was into him. He would do enough to keep her interest, but never actually bothered with her. After she got a boyfriend, he decided he would… I guess “court? (not quite the word, maybe)” this girl for like two months. She was obsessed with him, thought he was perfect, would do literally anything for him. And he told me all the things he could get her to do like it was funny, and I was just really disgusted. Then he just dropped her and went back to how he was before, except he would only hang around her when she was with her best friend at her house, because she was more comfortable telling the more “scandalous” things in her life. Every time, he’s bring a gossip friend of his who wasn’t friends with the girl, and he would obviously talk about it after. Idk, it’s not a big deal, but that’s one of the things that really bothered me. And another time when he manipulated an entire group of people to alienate this certain person he didn’t like through similar means. I just really don’t like that.. I don’t mind petty crime type things, cause he’s smart enough not to do anything he can get caught for. But harming people makes me sad 😦

        Those were things he did when we were just starting out, and I let him know I didn’t like it and that we wouldn’t continue dating if he continued to do things like that.

        Yeah, trust is trust. I’ll just throw my love at his face.

        I don’t mind talking more at all! This is really nice, and you’re a cool person.

      • Ah excellent 🙂 I’m so glad that I’m not the only one enjoying our conversation.

        “Even if I don’t get anything out of it, I feel better knowing that I made someone fell better, or helped them pass the time.” Then you do get something out of it! If helping people makes you happy then you should do it; I wouldn’t call that a waste at all. If you put it to James that way, he might understand. I do, so he should too.

        Thank you so much for sharing this information. What an insight into similar lives! It seems James and I share a sense of humour; I would act exactly like he did. And I’ve certainly scapegoated a person within a group like that before. But just to show we really are different people, I’m really not interested by gossip.

        “I let him know I didn’t like it and that we wouldn’t continue dating if he continued to do things like that.” You must be something special that he would stop, just like that. How impressive!

        “I’ll just throw my love at his face.” Haha! If you keep doing it you might erode him down so much that he does fall for you 😀 Hey, maybe that already happened and that’s why he stopped the games when you asked him to…

      • Oh, yeah! I haven’t really thought of trying to explain it that the person’s happiness is the reward. That sounds so cheesy lol but it’s true.

        You’re welcome! And yes, you guys seem pretty similar. He’s not a gossip himself, he just brought the gossip friend because he knew HE would gossip about her. He was testing the waters of how everyone else thought of her, but he didn’t want to do it himself, so he used the friend’s nature of being a gossip to do it for him and just listen in and get what he wants to hear. He does things like that a lot 😦 I mean, he can. It doesn’t actually hurt anyone. But it still feels iffy. And so meeeean, pulling strings for slight amusement, or information is so rudeeee.

        I’m not sure if I’m all that special. I know he hasn’t completely stopped, cause it’s his nature and it comes easily to him. But I’m glad that he at least doesn’t do things that are more hurtful.

        Well, it’s great now, how things are, too! I don’t mind if he doesn’t, cause I love him enough for us both.Plus, his

      • “Oh, yeah! I haven’t really thought of [that]” That’s what I’m here for, lol.

        I can’t really see why you’re uncomfortable with the little that he still does. I mean, you admit yourself that nobody gets hurt. How can something be mean or rude if the people don’t notice anything’s happening? Try to look at it this way: the other people aren’t any worse off for being played with a bit, but your boyfriend feels a lot better for being able to do it, and that has knock on benefits for your relationship. Looks like the good far outweighs the bad there 🙂

        “I’m not sure if I’m all that special.” Well either you’re seriously manipulative (getting him to mostly stop) or you mean a lot to him (he considers not upsetting you more important than much of his self-gratification). Either way, you’re special. Don’t be too modest!

        I kind of feel like you didn’t finish writing that comment, since it just sort of stops, but no worries.

      • Oh no, I didn’t realize I didn’t finish! I was saying, plus, his personality is something I love about him, so I wouldn’t want it to change.

        Lol I asked him and he said something along the lines of, “No, I understand, but self-sacrifice is unnecessary.” Not that I see it as a detriment on my end, but I guess he does. He’s good at getting me to see when I need to slow down, though. And at realizing that selfishness isn’t always something to feel guilty over.

        That’s a much better way to see it. And what they don’t know doesn’t really hurt them. It just feel so intrinsically bad! Kinda like lying. If you’re lying, even if the pros outweigh the cons, it’s still lying… Black and white thinking like that is foolish, I know. It’s just hard to unlearn things I’ve been conditioned to react to. He’s still getting used to opening up about things for that reason, and I try to put my silly misconceptions aside. Cause, no matter what I feel about him, hearing how he thinks and the way he plans things out is so interesting! He analyzes everything and he doesn’t do anything without having it all planned out. But even so, he doesn’t ever look suspicious or anything, and things always work out. It’s so cool! I guess I may do the same thing, but it’s not as calculated for me. He’s more of an actor, and I’m more of a reactor. I think most empaths are, since we have to feel the energy and mood first.

        Lol Empaths are pretty manipulative by nature, but the way I manipulate people doesn’t work on him, so I wouldn’t try that. But he does like me, for some reason, and he wants me to stay around with him. Maybe it’s because he can’t lower his mask around anyone else? Even with that one male friend who kinda knows, he isn’t really open about it with him. More like… I guess cautious would be the word. But I might also be downplaying his reasons. I wouldn’t want to ask lol it seems like it would be troublesome to justify your reasons for caring for someone.

      • Hmm, I thought so. Not to worry, mistakes happen!

        What is it that you love about him exactly? What do you like about his personality and what else attracts you to him? Sorry if that is forthright or too nosy; I don’t want you to feel pressured to answer anything you don’t want to answer 🙂

        Oh, so he doesn’t get it then. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I don’t see the attraction of helping people like that either, but I do understand that you enjoy it (for some reason) and that’s why you do it.

        The way I see it, actions themselves (lying, manipulation etc) have no moral value – they’re not good or bad. What is important is the outcome.

        “Empaths are pretty manipulative by nature” I did not know that… how do you manipulate then? >:)

      • Anyway, I don’t think I’m going to be welcome on here much longer. Certain folks have got it in for us it seems! if you want to continue our conversation, you may email me: blist_barn@yahoo.com.

        If not, it’s been a pleasure talking to you. I wish your relationship happiness and longevity 🙂

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