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  • Barbara 06:55 on May 28, 2015 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , , , , , hopelessness, , , ,   

    TOXIC HOPE 

    Three Reasons Your Relationship
    Will Never Get Better

    L.A. couples therapist featured in Time Magazine uses unique approach to marriage therapy including the acceptance that things won’t change.

    There are three reasons that your relationship cannot improve, even though you keep thinking it will. These are primary problems that are so influential that they are an obstacle that must be cleared before real progress in the relationship is possible.

    #1 Someone is frequently dishonest and that person is unwilling to identify that behavior as an individual problem that he or she wants to work on. An ongoing affair whether it is known or secret.

    #2 Psychological or medical disorders that are not treated. (Or personality disorders that are untreatable)

    These include: depression, manic depression, or menopause disorders, post traumatic stress and anxiety disorders such as obsessive-compulsive or post-traumatic stress disorder. (Include narcissism, psychopathy, sociopathy or borderline personality in the personality disorders category)

    Post traumatic Stress is often a result of abusive, neglectful or violent experiences in childhood. These can experiences can profoundly affect how someone later experiences issues of trust and conflict in current relationships. If symptoms from any of these illnesses are present and the person is unwilling to get treatment for it then there is a much reduced prospect for significant change in the relationship. First things first.

    #3 One partner uses physical violence, verbal abuse, psychological manipulation or emotional intimidation and is unwilling to say that this is their individual problem that s/he wants to work on it separately from the relationship.

    Saying, “I’m sorry. It won’t happen again.” is a good thing to hear from your partner. More importantly though is whether the intimidation ceases. The frequency, intensity or duration should be getting better. If it doesn’t then you may have ‘Toxic Hope.’

    Toxic hope is waiting for someone to change when there is no realistic reason to believe that it will happen. Battered women, or men, who keep hoping something will change, perhaps even when their partner has never even admitted that they have a control problem; are in toxic hope. Even though there is a fair effort made; the frequency and magnitude of the continuing offenses are severe enough that the other partner does not feel safe enough to continue within the relationship.

    We emphasize ‘progress, not perfection’ so the issue isn’t that slips or mistakes are made. The important thing is does the person eventually recognize his or her responsibility in the conflict and can the person show some concern for how that affects you. Or, if one person is unable to reasonably follow the guidelines and is not willing to seek further help.

    What do I mean when I say “an individual problem that he or she is willing to work on separate from the relationship?” Or what is meant by getting ‘further help’? A person can work on the issues they struggle with alone by reading books on the subject of violence or lying but few people are able to do this without the help of others.

    Using the help of others could mean going to a professional therapist who specializes in the area that needs work or it can mean going to a self -help group for that particular problem. If physical violence is the problem then my recommendation is to attend a professionally led anger management or domestic violence group. Having worked for ten years in these groups I can say that the men are pleasantly surprised that they can learn useful methods that benefit their relationships. For most of the men it is the first time that they are exposed to the principle that being vulnerable will not result in being hurt.

    • One partner refuses to ever consider forgiving the other for some past wrong committed by the other, even when that partner has humbly asked for forgiveness.
    • Alcohol or drug dependence or abuse (prescribed medicines too!) Other addictions such as food, sex, spending, gambling or work are huge impediments to progress in a relationship which are sometimes overlooked or simply denied.

    • Leaving a psychologically violent or abusive relationship. If you feel scared that you will be hurt, pursued or injured if you leave then trust your feelings and seek help from a women’s shelter or hotline before taking action. Talk with them and consider the advice or recommendations that is given to you. The most dangerous time, physically, for the abused wife (or husband) is at the time of separating. There were armchair quarterbacks saying Nicole Brown Simpson should have left O.J. and divorced him. She was leaving him! It was then that she was killed.

      If you are physically abused by your partner call 1 800 978-3600 FREE to talk to a domestic violence counselor to learn about resources in your area. You are not alone!

    If violence is occurring in your home then break the isolation. And for the person whose anger is out of control, please seek the competent help of anger management specialists. Why wait for a neighbor’s phone call to initiate your criminal record? Do something courageous and positive NOW! Seek the help of professionals who can help you. Stop saying “I’m sorry.” and take some real steps toward repeating what probably happened in the family you grew up in.

    Checklist Before You Leave:
    If you have done these things then you can leave knowing that you did everything you could before deciding for sure to leave. These do not apply if there is violence, addiction, continuing adultery or unrepentant lying in the relationship. Things to think about when you consider ending a relationship:

    • When your partner apologizes does s/he mention both what s/he did and how s/he’s hurt you?
    • If any form of physical control, intimidation or violence occurs, does it get justified (ie. “I wouldn’t have done it if you didn’t….”)?
    • If apologies are made is there reference made to the person’s intention about changing future behavior, or is there further justification for the disrespectful behavior?
    • Are you growing in this relationship?
    • Does this person have all the signs of having a personality disorder (they can not be fixed or cured)?
    • Is the other person growing in this relationship? Is there improvement? It’s a process. Is there an expressed willingness to grow? Or are you wishing & assuming your partner wants to change his/her behavior and attitudes. Remember we’re looking for ‘Progress and not Perfection’.

    Marc Sadoff, MSW, BCD
    PACIFIC SKILLS TRAINING CO.

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  • James 07:26 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , advice, , born victims, , empowerment, equality and diversity, , , gloating, homework due in next Thursday, hopelessness, , losers, , , nursery rhymes, , , , , ,   

    Are you my next target? 

    Recommended reading: the previous post, a discussion between Tina and I about the successful psychopath.

    Are you lonely, popular, caring, confident, laid back, anxious, adventurous, bored, traumatised, naïve, competitive, depressed, sentimental, accepting, argumentative, compassionate, impulsive or shy?

    If so, then boy have I got just the trick for you! Get your very own custom-made psychopath experience, with guaranteed success rate, for one of us at least. Order now, and get free emotional trauma to take with you when we’re done. While stocks last.

    “…catch a sucker by its toe. If it squeals, hold on tight; I ain’t letting this bitch go.

    If there is one question all victims of psychopaths have asked themselves at some point in the period after their psychopath has moved on, it has to be “why me?” Or more specifically; “what was it that made me a target?” Such a question has little value after the fact, you were a victim and that is that (just get on with your life already… looking at you, Ms. Moscovici), but refocus it slightly on those of you who haven’t been blessed with a psychopath’s attention yet and we’ve got the infinitely more useful question: “How can I avoid being targeted in the first place?”

    Well, the simple version of the answer is you can’t. As noted here, the list of exploitable traits is seemingly endless to the extent most people will identify with one or the other. Psychopaths are adaptable “jacks of all trades” when it comes to finding potential victims. Personally, I pride myself on being an equal opportunities victimiser; I don’t really understand traditional prejudices like racism and sexism which focus on arbitrary traits that have no bearing on how valuable a person is. Black, white, rich, poor, old, young, male, female, American, French or Sudanese, you’re all fair game. And I frequently pick (and drop, it has to be said) targets on a whim, so it’s really quite random and out of your control.

    I could just finish there, with a “Hahahaha! You’re all doomed, fuckers!”, but that wouldn’t be very nice of me, would it? Instead, I’m going to remind you that the above is only the simple version of the answer. Yes it is true, I am omnivorous, but everyone has their favourite foods and nobody likes to work too much to get them. Think of those nature documentaries with David Attenborough, what was it he said about the sort of prey predators tend to single out? The wolves don’t tend to take on those really big bison with massive horns and muscular bodies now do they? Sure, they give a whirl now and again, when they’re feeling especially self-assured, but they tend to stick to the weaker animals. So while it is true that somebody’s confidence or competitive spirit can be used against them, it is much easier to pick on unconfident, damaged people (those who are weak).

    I can detect weakness just by looking at someone. I can’t explain it as anything other than instinct; you could say I can just sniff it out. In particular, sadness, low self-esteem and nervousness are all instantly identifiable from body language, posture, expression and general aura. Otherwise, I can get a good idea by talking to a person just what their weaknesses might be. I know when someone is lying to my face, I know when someone has a mental illness (yes, really) and I can read most people’s emotions without trying.

    Now I’m going to leave you, not with a “hahaha” but with a homework assignment. Think about yourself. What are your strengths and how can you play to them? More importantly, what weaknesses do you have that a psychopath could potentially exploit? You may not be able to rid yourself of weakness, but by being mindful of your own shortcomings, you are already one step ahead of any psychopath who might come a-knocking. And if somebody new to your life takes a particular interest in one of your known weaknesses, your suspicions will already be raised, won’t they?

    Now I’d like to challenge you to take a step further: leave a comment briefly outlining your weak spot. By owning up publicly, you accept it as a part of you.

    Many thanks to the commenter called beautifulyule, who inspired this post.

    And click here to read about successful psychopaths.

     
    • @GeneticPsycho (Tina) 07:33 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      I question why you have called out Ms. Moscovici for “moving on” when she hasn’t written about psychopaths since 2012.

      Like

      • James 08:14 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

        The answer to that is very simple, I wasn’t aware that she hadn’t. Good for her! One of my weaknesses is I sometimes jump to conclusions too readily without thinking things through.

        Liked by 2 people

    • @GeneticPsycho (Tina) 07:38 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      I have a weakness for big muscles and a wicked sense of humor. That’s how they all got me. You just gave me an idea for a blog post, thanks.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Gale A. Molinari 09:12 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Reblogged this on galesmind and commented:

      Protect yourself.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Erica Herd 12:01 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      I like 3-toed sloths.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Human 14:21 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Excellent! Had to reblog this one at PsychopathResistance.com.

      Liked by 1 person

      • James 15:04 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

        Thank you, puny human.

        Like

        • Human 17:41 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

          I am offended. It is puny Human with a capital H.

          Liked by 4 people

          • James 17:46 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

            You know, I thought of putting a capital H and decided it’d be too weird. Haha 😀

            Like

    • luverley 16:17 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      My weakness is letting my multiples fuck me around. I’m in no need of any more psychos but it’s interesting to see the opinion of the other side.

      Like

      • James 16:26 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

        You’re doing it wrong! You don’t just let someone fuck you around, there’s always a reason behind it.

        You don’t have to tell the world your true weakness, just think about it a bit more, and you might actually stop it from happening again.

        Liked by 1 person

        • luverley 16:26 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

          Haha my multiples in my head. Caused by successful psychopaths lol

          Like

          • luverley 16:27 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

            Hey and you asked for truth, I was just being honest I thought it was good

            Liked by 1 person

            • James 16:29 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

              Yes, it’s a great start, But you have to dig further into yourself. Like I said, you’re not obliged to share what you find with us all but it would benefit you to know why you let yourself get fucked with.

              Liked by 1 person

              • luverley 16:32 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

                I know I’m not obliged but I ain’t got anywhere else to do it and I thought you would get a kick and maybe try manipulate my weakness. But you didn’t. There are many selves that’s what’s so hard. And parts of me relate to being a psychopath so it’s interesting to read.

                Like

          • James 16:35 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

            You mean you’ve got MPD?

            Like

            • luverley 16:46 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

              Yes lol

              Like

            • luverley 16:49 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

              It’s DID now days, but yes I do have real life multiples too. They’re 2.5 and they’re a handful which causes weakness of Givin in when you know you shouldn’t.

              Liked by 1 person

              • James 16:52 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

                That’s fascinating! Do you know your multiples personally or do they keep themselves hidden from you?

                Liked by 1 person

                • James 16:54 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

                  Lol, I was so slow on the uptake!

                  Like

                • luverley 16:54 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

                  I know a couple like Co concious and the others are blanked. It’s a bitch cos I dint remember 2 days ago let alone 20 days months or years.

                  Like

                  • James 16:56 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

                    God! How do you live like that?

                    Liked by 1 person

                  • James 16:57 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

                    Would you mind telling me about the others you know about?

                    Like

                    • luverley 16:59 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

                      If you ain’t guna try manipulate or trigger them out at a later date. There are people out there who deliberately try targeting did people and do that to people like us. now what are they. Psychos?

                      Like

                      • James 17:01 on May 22, 2015 Permalink

                        They probably, yes. Not me, I’m just interested.

                        Liked by 1 person

                      • luverley 17:04 on May 22, 2015 Permalink

                        That’s OK. Nobody else is they like to deny them. I have 13 I know about. But not all do I know of.if you know what I mean. They were revealed to one who wrote the list but there’s more I know it. Some know of each other but the others deny each other. Ugh it’s hard to explain.

                        Liked by 1 person

                      • James 17:06 on May 22, 2015 Permalink

                        I can imagine it is. Luckily, I don’t mind being confused 🙂 Forgive me for asking, but how do you know you’re the original?

                        Like

                      • luverley 17:30 on May 22, 2015 Permalink

                        I don’t

                        Like

                      • luverley 17:35 on May 22, 2015 Permalink

                        I’m not feeling too distanced from my mind and body right now but I know this morning and a lot lately I have been brooke who is 7. She really really wants to talk to t about the trauma but I read up how to be a good DID therapist and it says there is one who tends to get out and destabilize the lot which is what she does best so I don’t think we’ll be going to t for a bit. The host needs a good support network which she doesn’t so we need to work on that first

                        Liked by 1 person

                      • James 17:46 on May 22, 2015 Permalink

                        Maybe you shouldn’t take shit from a 7 year old. There has to be a responsible adult among you who can sort her out.

                        Like

                      • luverley 17:54 on May 22, 2015 Permalink

                        I suppose but it’s not her fault, she had the most trauma and wants to spew it forth but has always been stopped by the persecutors. Anyway I’ll hold her back. I have a criminal justice and human service essay we have to do so I need boss to come out and take over. Hope I ain’t committing plaguerism

                        Like

                      • James 18:10 on May 22, 2015 Permalink

                        Alright, get on with your essay. If boss gets a minute, it would be interesting to speak to her or him.

                        Like

                      • luverley 18:17 on May 22, 2015 Permalink

                        Her. Yeah I’m not so much in control as I would like. I don’t even think there is a host anymore. And its funny when bitch is in cos she doesn’t like us so she doesn’t think we have DID you might get her lol. She’s the reason I was reading on psychos cos she is one

                        Like

                      • James 18:25 on May 22, 2015 Permalink

                        Well if you ever want some advice on how to deal with bitch, you know where to come, love.

                        Liked by 1 person

                      • luverley 05:33 on May 23, 2015 Permalink

                        Haha thanks. I will definitely be reading more of your posts thanks for sharing

                        Liked by 1 person

                      • James 17:01 on May 22, 2015 Permalink

                        They probably are, I should say.

                        Like

    • luverley 16:26 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Love the debate link too. Totally great arguments from both. I loved the paragraph where you started on how you would like to quote all the expletives that are ruining through your head but won’t because it’s unacceptable. And success definitely has a different meaning to everybody!

      Liked by 2 people

    • Amaterasu Solar 19:40 on May 22, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      I am unsure of My weaknesses. I used to be very trusting, but to be sure, THAT’s gone. LOL! Maybe a chocolate souffle counts. LOL!

      Seriously, I appreciate Your getting Me to contemplate this. If I come up with something (and there must be something, I imagine), I’ll get back.

      Liked by 1 person

    • mstmha 20:28 on May 23, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Reblogged this on mstmha and commented:

      ALL I CAN ABOUT THIS IS ‘WOW’…

      Liked by 2 people

      • James 09:08 on May 24, 2015 Permalink | Reply

        Yeah, I generally have that effect on people…

        Like

    • Rules 21:19 on May 23, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      My weakness is that I am too emotional

      Liked by 1 person

    • prayerwarriorpsychicnot 00:02 on May 24, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Reblogged this on Citizens, not serfs.

      Liked by 1 person

      • James 09:03 on May 24, 2015 Permalink | Reply

        Thanks, man. (Also, I believe the term is “subjects”)

        Liked by 1 person

        • conartistocracy 10:46 on May 24, 2015 Permalink | Reply

          Pleasure to reblog. Every word is true, and I and everyone close to me have the scars to prove it, as it is clear you do as well.
          Good point about “subjects”. I take it you are a free citizen (so far) of the USA? So subject fits more in your usage. My idea was to get at we are being returned to feudalism. But within your usage, yes we are ” subjects” not free citizens.
          Good discussion on your article. 🙂

          Like

          • James 11:56 on May 24, 2015 Permalink | Reply

            No, I’m a British citizen like you. Not currently living in the UK, but still got my passport should I ever return!

            Liked by 1 person

    • conartistocracy 15:12 on May 24, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      I stand corrected. Just I had noticed on American sites the usage of the term “subject” which I’ve never seen a Brit using.

      Like

      • sayso 07:44 on September 29, 2018 Permalink | Reply

        whoever keeps saying psychopaths are 4% of population does not seem to know sh%^&t of what they are saying. in my family and extended family practically everyone is infected with pschopathy. granted they probably infect each other. but if there is just one in an extended family of 50 that is sane. just one soul. that i would like to know who. myself i escaped the insanity because i got a pseudo mother away from my biological mother.
        this 4% i just do not accept it. or may be i am living in the wrong village and town of the world.

        Like

        • GeneticPsychosMom (Tina) 08:38 on September 29, 2018 Permalink | Reply

          Hi, thanks for coming by and starting a conversation. I have questions. What percentage level do you think are psychopathic? How old are you? When did you learn about psychopaths? My name is Tina. I am the one who uses 4% because it is the higher of the estimates being given by the mental health profession. I wish that there was an actual measurement … perhaps someday it will be recognized in childhood like autism and we can get a better count.

          Like

    • nowve666 23:23 on October 19, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      I love psychopaths and I’m a masochist.

      Like

      • James 20:35 on October 21, 2015 Permalink | Reply

        What are you banging on about Fran?

        Like

        • nowve666 21:34 on October 21, 2015 Permalink | Reply

          I am simply replying to the question. What “weaknessdo we have that could make us prey? This is a true answer. My first love was a psychopath and a sadist. It was simply a matter of the best coming to the best. 😉 I was also being a bit sassy just for fun.

          Liked by 2 people

    • Amelia SleepAllDay 23:45 on March 20, 2016 Permalink | Reply

      my weakness is my low self-esteem….and because of that, I lack confidence. Since primary school I’ve bullied because I need to stop sayinggggg bulllllshittttt….XDDD Nah my real weakness is way more destructive. I lie and manipulate people into thinking I’m something I’m not to get to react a certain way which will, of course, be in my favor. Act weak, act sad, act in need of help, act seductive, act daring, act anything that can be acted to gain people’s pity, empathy, help, interest etc… That’s a form of exploitation in itself even if it’s their fault for falling in the strap and I shouldn’t be doing that but I can’t help it. I enjoy seeing how people react to different situations or circumstances but I waste my time on people I shouldn’t even care about. But mostly that is not true at all, not one bit is true. My real real realll weakness is second-hand embarassment. That’s when you get embarrassed for what someone else has done. This may sound ridicule to you but if being over empathic is a disease, then I’m on the last stage! When someone make a fool of himself I don’t care, but when they make certain specific things, I don’t know, something dies inside of me. If you have read up until here, which would surprise me enormously, you will know that what I stated above as my weakness are nothing but a bunch of amateur lies. Isn’t telling people your weakness a weakness in itself? The magician NEVER discloses his tricks because if he did, it would be no longer be a show, would it? People can use his trick against him like they can use your weaknesses against you. I can admit only 2 things since they won’t harm me in any way and they can’t be used against me.

      First: I have a place reserved in Hell because laziness is a sin
      Second: I’m bad at lying so maybe everything I said on here is true, maybe it’s all fake, maybe some parts of it somewhat reflect reality, can you tell the difference?

      Like

      • James 16:24 on March 24, 2016 Permalink | Reply

        I could tell that much of that comment was made of lies, because of inconsistencies and from your tone. However, I can’t tell which was the lie and which was the truth, nor do I care. I think you’re channelling your inner psychopath though.

        Like

    • Anonymous 16:59 on July 5, 2016 Permalink | Reply

      My weaknesses.

      When I was a kid I was excluded by others and bullied so I’ve this hunger for real friendships so I feel lonely. However I’m ver very suspicious about hypocrisy so I’m going to instantly suspect if you are a perfect friend. I’ve met hypocrite people before that tried to use… that might have been psychopaths now that I think about it hence my eternal suspiciousness.

      Yes I’ve self esteem issues as a secondary weakness. But again I’ll get instantly suspicious about people people over complimenting me specially when I know I don’t deserve them.

      What do you think? How would that make me vulnerable/ would a psychopath approach me?

      Like

      • James 20:22 on July 5, 2016 Permalink | Reply

        The right person can always take advantage of anyone (I’m not saying that person is me). Charm isn’t just about endless compliments, because although that works for some people, most are tuned in to recognise overt flattery when they encounter it. Your suspiciousness can be your greatest asset as you’ll never be taken for a sucker, but people like me can sense suspicion and ‘hidden’ feelings like loneliness, and some of us may want to penetrate your defences for the fun of it and for the challenge of breaking down your emotional walls.

        Like

        • anonymous 20:33 on July 5, 2016 Permalink | Reply

          Thank you. Though probably you don’t care about me being grateful…

          Like

          • James 20:40 on July 5, 2016 Permalink | Reply

            No, it’s always a pleasure to help. Genuinely.

            Like

    • anonymous 18:56 on July 5, 2016 Permalink | Reply

      test to see if my post dissaperead.

      Like

    • kailadvesele 08:18 on December 30, 2016 Permalink | Reply

      I’m borderline and I’m very curious about everything. I’m empathic and I’m not judging, but I’m very impulsive and emocional. If somone try to play mindfuck games with me, I let do it them, because it’s interesting. I really like to spend time with smart people. Maybe I’m naive, but it’s hard to trust someone. For example, if someone are nice to me, i would try understand – why? What is reason? And it would make me very suspicious. I used to lied, but i think I do it very horrible (too much details tell, sometimes i am too much angry when somone dont trust me, sometimes I’m feeling stresfull.
      And I’m paranoid. people ar dangerous, they could kill me.i cant speak about my experience, because he would be angry. He knew everything about my personality. But i understand it’s because my body language, way of speaking and my eyes. I think he just been bored, because he didnt use me any way. Maybe i was his material for fun.
      Any way, i asked him much questions. If I asked good Q, he just smiled special way, but i didn’t get answers to my questions. One year later i found out, that he ir a leader in one cult. But he warned me, that i dont need to try find information, it would be dangerous for me.
      Maybe I have stocholm sindrom.
      It’s very easy to manipulate with me. And it’s stupid thing for me to write this comment. Because it tells/shows so much about me.
      But it wont be long from this moment a part from me, becaude i dont want to be weak.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Kim Kabar 18:01 on June 25, 2017 Permalink | Reply

      Attachment to desire for love. The more one is attached, the more vulnerable he or she is to sociopath or psychopaths ploys.

      Liked by 1 person

    • nowve666 19:22 on June 25, 2017 Permalink | Reply

      My question is why avoid psychopaths? You are lucky to be of interest to one. Robert Hare said the experience could be “thrilling or devastating.” Why not live dangerously? You got something better to do?

      Like

    • sayso 07:36 on September 29, 2018 Permalink | Reply

      no. psychopaths are not looking for your emotional status. you can be in the statehouse. you can be a drunk in the alley. all they want to know is that you have something they can work with. and for free. free sex. free money. whatever. then they go to overdrive. love bombing. seducing. threatening. anything. a full scale war that many of us are not equipped for. communications with them leave you wondering what was not said. which song was not sung. which button was not pressed.
      ultimately some of us healed. and now we only have anger for those that abused us.
      but the game. their game. their stupid game. crushed years ago.
      And you have finally moved on. healed.

      Liked by 1 person

      • GeneticPsychosMom (Tina) 08:50 on September 29, 2018 Permalink | Reply

        Sometimes it is impossible to heal from the trauma of being a victim of a psychopath because the experience destroys everything. My anger at the abuse is what fueled me to start attempting to educate the public, and advocating for psychopath testing politicians. It is hard to educate the masses because: 1. It costs money for advertising, and 2. The mental health profession is so ignorant. They are not being taught the latest neurological research. A lot of them believe in the “nature vs nurture” so they think that psychopathy is caused by the environmental conditions or abuses during childhood. They also think that psychopathy lies on a spectrum. Maybe narcissism lies on a spectrum, but you either have a conscience or you don’t.

        Like

        • nowve666 09:18 on September 29, 2018 Permalink | Reply

          Hey, Tina! I agree that there is a lot of ignorance in “the mental health profession.” But I don’t agree that psychopathy isn’t on a spectrum. The gold standard for psychopathy, the PCL-R provides a numerical “score” from 0 to 40. Anything 30 or above indicates psychopathy. But someone with a score of 32 is different from someone with a score of 40. Lack of conscience is certainly crucial but there are other traits, as I’m sure you know.

          Like

          • GeneticPsychosMom (Tina) 13:04 on September 29, 2018 Permalink | Reply

            People in general are on a spectrum, as far as behavior is concerned. The PCL-R measures identifying behaviors, not conscience.

            Like

            • James 19:53 on September 29, 2018 Permalink | Reply

              Conscience is a such a woolly concept, the only thing we can measure is behaviour, as Hare’s list does. Now of course brain mapping is improving all the time, but the idea that neurologists will find which part of the brain houses the “conscience” is about as far fetched as discovering where in the brain the “soul” resides. These are pre-scientific notions which are impossible to graft on to the latest findings. But that is not to say such concepts are not worth talking about, just that science has little to say about them. Philosophy on the other hand…

              Liked by 1 person

              • GeneticPsychosMom (Tina) 21:48 on September 30, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                Conscience is not a woolly concept. It is physical discomfort.

                Like

                • nowve666 22:42 on September 30, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                  Really? What does it feel like? A headache? Nausea?

                  Like

                • James 09:54 on October 1, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                  Precisely, feelings are not measurable. That’s what makes it woolly.

                  So would you feel physical discomforting before committing an act which goes against your conscience, or is it only after? Because people say that conscience stops them from acting a certain way that they might otherwise choose.

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                  • GeneticPsychosMom (Tina) 16:16 on October 1, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                    Discomfort is measurable, that’s why psychopaths can pass lie detector tests more easily than the rest of us.

                    Like

                    • James 17:49 on October 1, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                      Because I’m attracted mostly by behaviourism, I have to say that it’s the behaviour of discomfort (sweat, facial expression, increased heart rate etc) that is measurable, not the emotion itself. I know what discomfort feels like to me, but as written before (a long time ago), the behavioural signs don’t manifest on the surface.

                      Like

            • James 20:02 on September 29, 2018 Permalink | Reply

              Also, you mentioned autism. That too is on a spectrum, and is tested for (much like psychopathy) with a questionnaire – the Baron-Cohen autism spectrum quotient (fun fact: Prof Simon Baron-Cohen is the cousin of Sacha B-C, of Borat fame). I was tested with this in school, back when they were trying to figure out what was “wrong” with me.

              The difference between the two is one is widely known about and administered routinely in childhood, while the other is mainly just known of and generally only reserved for prisoners.

              Like

            • nowve666 03:26 on September 30, 2018 Permalink | Reply

              You really don’t think psychopathy is a spectrum? But it has more traits tan lack of conscience. The PCL-R measures those traits (plural) and provides a numerical value which is a spectrum. A psychopath can get anything between 30 and 40.

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              • James 04:28 on September 30, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                Indeed, and someone who scores 28 may not be a clinical psychopath, but they’re more of a psychopath than the majority of the general population, who may score 4 on a ‘bad’ day.

                Liked by 1 person

                • nowve666 10:43 on September 30, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                  Hare is always referring to those who score 4. I can never imagine how anyone can get such a low score.

                  Like

                  • James 10:47 on September 30, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                    You need to meet more people 😉

                    Like

              • GeneticPsychosMom (Tina) 21:54 on September 30, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                I think that it’s the lack of conscience that makes it easier to conduct the antisocial behaviors. Well, this makes me curious to ask you and James: Is there anything on the PCL-R that you would feel uncomfortable doing? What stops you from being at level 40?

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                • nowve666 22:49 on September 30, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                  The items on the PCL-R are not actions. They are traits like superficial charm and glibness, manipulativeness, thrill seeming. You give the person a number from 0 to 2. Two means someone has a quality completely. One means somewhat and zero means not at all.

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                  • GeneticPsychosMom (Tina) 16:05 on October 1, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                    I just copied and pasted from James’s list to simplify things. Of the 20 items, 9 are controllable behaviors, so my question is what stops you from making use of these to the fullest? And my question includes juvenile delinquency and criminal versatility because what if you participated in con-artistry, vandalism, and/or something antisocial but weren’t caught.

                    glib and superficial charm
                    pathological lying
                    cunning and manipulativeness
                    parasitic lifestyle
                    poor behavioural controls
                    sexual promiscuity
                    early behaviour problems
                    irresponsibility
                    juvenile delinquency
                    criminal versatility

                    Like

                    • GeneticPsychosMom (Tina) 16:33 on October 1, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                      I guess many short-term marital relationships should go on the list – so that makes 10 controllable behaviors.

                      Like

                    • James 19:14 on October 1, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                      I dispute that “poor behavioural controls” is controllable, or that it is an asset to be used. It’s a handicap, shared with special kids who permanently wear crash helmets. The clue is in the entire phrase POOR behavioural controls

                      Failure to accept responsibility for own actions should be on there instead. That’s a choice, and for me is decided by a cost-benefit analysis, all logical like.

                      For the others:

                      Glibness and superficial charm were mentioned already.

                      Pathological lying – Not gonna lie, I lie all the time, whenever, wherever, without thought to the consequences. I do lie tactically as well, and fake bad lies to throw people off, and also consciously tell the truth when I want to, but there’s also a lot of automatic lying that I don’t really have a lid on. Score: 2++

                      Cunning and manipulativeness – Pretty much always on, so it’s a 2. I actually think I’m a better persuader than manipulator though, for what it’s worth. Language is my thing.

                      Parasitic lifestyle – Well I’m living off the government and family at the minute, so…

                      Sex – Everyone has a libido, and everyone tries to satisfy that. Have as much as you want, and no more.

                      Early behavioural problems – not applicable; doesn’t fit with the question.

                      Irresponsibility – I refer you to the Doctor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRlF8Qnm0go

                      (Yeah, I’m getting bored and evasive)

                      Juvenile delinquency – Not being materialistic, stealing never had much appeal except to hurt people, so I targeted things of sentimental worth – some purple crystal, a fossilised seahorse, a violin, some idiot’s “special cup”, a pet gerbil. I didn’t keep any as trophies, just chucked them off a bridge to watch them break. The crystal didn’t smash 🙂 Also I stabbed people (not fatally, obviously) and knocked them out – always with a chair, or a block of wood or some tool. 1?? 2???

                      Criminal versatility: There’s no way I’m even hinting at the ‘worst’ thing, just that it makes me happy. If we ever meet in person, I’ll tell you. Other than that, fraud, coercion/controlling behaviour, opportunistic but not premeditated theft, fare evasion, impersonation (is that a crime?), ‘misuse’ of drugs, kicking the homeless (is that a crime?)

                      You scored a 1. How come?

                      Liked by 1 person

                • James 09:51 on October 1, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                  It helps to lend some context to your question, so I’ll quote from http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html

                  “The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:

                  glib and superficial charm
                  grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
                  need for stimulation
                  pathological lying
                  cunning and manipulativeness
                  lack of remorse or guilt
                  shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
                  callousness and lack of empathy
                  parasitic lifestyle
                  poor behavioural controls
                  sexual promiscuity
                  early behaviour problems
                  lack of realistic long-term goals
                  impulsivity
                  irresponsibility
                  failure to accept responsibility for own actions
                  many short-term marital relationships
                  juvenile delinquency
                  revocation of conditional release
                  criminal versatility”

                  For each of these, a score of 0, 1 or 2 is assigned to the patient, hence how it is possible to score less than 40, but still reach the threshold of psychopathy.

                  Bear in mind I haven’t actually been administered the test, so my opinion may differ from that of a psychiatrist, but some of these flat out don’t apply. I haven’t had any marital relationships (short-term or otherwise), and I haven’t been convicted of any crime, so the last three would all score zero. These four items specifically undermine the validity of the PCL-R in my books, because they fail to consider age (for the marriage thing) and a whole host of factors for the crime stuff (intelligence, criminal aptitude, factors beyond your control like wealth, social class, race, and susceptibility of law enforcement to corruption, which all contribute to make it more or less likely for criminal charges to be brought against you.) Ted Bundy himself would not score a 40; he was married only once, had no criminal record prior to his first arrest for murder, no evidence for criminal activity aside from being a serial killer.

                  For me, that’s eight points lost already, before we start quibbling about whether each of the other items should score me a 1 or a 2, which is frankly not worth the effort. That’s what the people with many years of Psych education are good at.

                  It may also be worth considering whether some items on the list should count more than others; I’d suggest that “pathological lying”, “lack of remorse or guilt” and “callousness and lack of empathy” are traits which no psychopath lacks, and which few non-psychopaths possess, whereas “sexual promiscuity” and “lack of realistic long term goals” may not apply to every psychopath, but certainly apply to most university students.

                  Now please answer this, Tina: what’s your score?

                  Liked by 1 person

                  • GeneticPsychosMom (Tina) 16:22 on October 1, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                    I never thought about this before, but in the past 3 years, knowing how to spot psychopaths and studying them up close and personal … glib and charm should be 2 separate rating items. lol Every psychopath is glib, not all are charming.

                    I would score myself:
                    0 – glib and superficial charm
                    1 – grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
                    0 – need for stimulation
                    0 – pathological lying
                    0 – cunning and manipulativeness
                    0 – lack of remorse or guilt
                    0 – shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
                    0 – callousness and lack of empathy
                    0 – parasitic lifestyle
                    0 – poor behavioural controls
                    0 – sexual promiscuity
                    0 – early behaviour problems
                    2 – lack of realistic long-term goals
                    1 – impulsivity
                    1 – irresponsibility
                    0 – failure to accept responsibility for own actions
                    0 – many short-term marital relationships
                    0 – juvenile delinquency
                    0 – revocation of conditional release
                    1 – criminal versatility

                    Like

                    • James 18:02 on October 1, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                      Firstly, thanks for playing. I didn’t think you would 🙂

                      Your list is pretty much what I thought you should have (not surprised by that 2 – I’ve seen your chaotic job history – but I am in no position to judge there btw, the past three years have been a thankfully non-fatal car crash professionally)

                      I’d give you a 1 for callousness, but am conscious of only knowing you online, and everyone is more callous online than irl – everyone but me, I’m way nicer online.

                      One thing Fran has argued a couple of times which I find myself agreeing with is what the difference is between “superficial charm” and plain old “charm”? We wouldn’t need to be glib if we could just be ourselves without being arrested or sectioned (explanation of “sectioned”: https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/problemsdisorders/beingsectionedengland.aspx)

                      Like

                      • GeneticPsychosMom (Tina) 16:39 on October 2, 2018 Permalink

                        My definition of glib is diarrhea of the mouth. Psychopaths tend to go on with story after story. That is the absolute case with every single psychopath I have had the displeasure of listening to. Talking a lot seems to be an innate trait. I would consider superficial charm to be a learned behavior.

                        Like

                      • James 19:07 on October 2, 2018 Permalink

                        Not wanting to waste your precious time I’ll keep this short – only my father regularly tells me to shut up, complaining that I talk without actually saying anything. I tell him he should just listen more closely.

                        Like

                    • James 20:01 on October 1, 2018 Permalink | Reply

                      Another trait I’ve noticed anecdotally, psychopaths seem to have excellent memories. I remember conversations – exact wordings – I had years ago, and can pick them up where we left off if I meet that person again, which either weirds them out or makes them feel special. I remember people’s vulnerabilities. I remember jokes that I’ve heard. More than one psychopath has written about remembering being a baby.

                      Fran messaged me recently saying “how dare [another psychopath] be named James?” hoping to get a rise out of me, because she remembers an article I wrote 4 years ago where I said I hated other people who shared my name. That’s some savant shit right there!

                      As you can testify, we keep track of long, drawn-out, preposterous lies and stick to the story. We bear grudges forever and a day. We remember favours we’re owed. We never “just let it go” (and asking us to is just foolish – you know it’s opposite day, right?)

                      Liked by 1 person

                      • nowve666 17:26 on October 2, 2018 Permalink

                        LOL! Maybe our “going on with story after story” is the result of our excellent memories. If story telling is “innate” and “superficial charm” is “a learned behavior,” both are traits, or to be more precise, one trait. I guess one could score a “2”: one for glib and one for charm.

                        Like

                      • James 19:09 on October 2, 2018 Permalink

                        Excellent memories and superb imaginations 😉

                        Liked by 1 person

                      • Critter 08:28 on October 3, 2018 Permalink

                        Psychopaths get excellent memory, concentration, attention and executive functioning in general, pretty much for free. These abilities comes from having a brain with high dopamine activity. Another indirect benefit from this is that gets way easier to get the most out of intelligence and talents, often even above your weight class.

                        I would say given psychopaths propensity for withholding details, I kind of doubt that’s completely intentional 100% of the time, as if your memories would be completely sterile of bias 😉 Also it’s not that hard to figure out which details might have been fleshed out a little, you’re pretty normal in that regard, lol.

                        Like

                      • James 10:31 on October 3, 2018 Permalink

                        Interesting. I did not know that about dopamine allowing for those things. What an amazing bonus! Are there any other so-called disorders which allow for this, Asperger Syndrome perhaps? Out of the two most talented linguists I know, one is an aspie, and the other definitely has ASPD at the very least.

                        In your second paragraph, I’m not sure what you’re getting at. Despite being oh so very intelligent 😉 Would you mind explaining.

                        Like

      • James 19:54 on September 29, 2018 Permalink | Reply

        Thanks for stopping by. All the best with your ‘healing’ process.

        Like

    • Critter 05:27 on October 8, 2018 Permalink | Reply

      A lot of people with Asbergers certainly have an ability to focus on tasks with a tunnel vision. They often make very good scientists and engineers, their brains does work differently than the average population. They are more rigid in their thinking which makes social interactions more challenging but, in other areas it can be a massive benefit. They are often very thorough whith their work and can plow through spreadsheets in exel or debug code for hours without taking breaks. That kind of mental stamina is function of dopamine activity but, not all asbergers have that, some also get diagnosed ADHD and get prescribed stimulants.

      ASPD is more like an adaption in early life as a survival strategy, in many ways it’s a developmental disorder and it doesn’t have as much of a genetic component as far as I undertand it. I kind of doubt they often exel at working towards long term goals and they can be super impulsive, but if they are intelligent they sure aren’t held back from success by any fear of breaking rules.

      What I meant is that memory is nowhere near as accurate as it intuitively feels like. The reason for this is that evolutionary mechanisms doesn’t favor perfectly accurate memory since this would be an overkill when it comes to survival in the natural world. The general principle is a bit like brain tries to prioritize the important details so that these stick to memory better than the less obviously important ones. These memory biases affect how memories are stored while cognitive biases like confirmation bias affect more how memories are used (It’s easier to recollect those memories that fits our views/ideas/theories/speculations etc than those that doesn’t). A few examples of memory biases:

      “10. Remembering your past attitudes and behavior as resembling your current attitudes and behavior is called a consistency bias.

      After putting in an effort to change or advance, remembering your past performance as more difficult than it actually was is called a change bias.
      Remembering something as true because you’ve heard it somewhere else before from someone else before is an example of the Illusion-of-truth effect. You may perceive it as truth without validating the information. A great example of this are the many urban legends and celebrity myths that persist throughout society today. When you inaccurately remember the relationship between two moments, this is due to a bias called Illusory correlation.”

      https://www.getheroik.com/38-memory-biases-that-change-the-story/
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memory_biases

      Liked by 1 person

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